Produkty mleczne.

Racja :) na początku też podchodziłem z przymrożeniem oka do tego. Ale po konsultacji z Piotrem G :) wyeliminowałem produkty mleczny i efekt był dobry. No cóż, ma Pan dobrą rękę do zawodników

Piotrek kiedys w Ostrowie rozmawialismy na ten temat

o ile pamietam to w sumie nikt nie umial tego 'fenomenu' wytlumaczyc (stawiam dalej na moja 'teorie' ktora nizej)

Panowie wasze przygotowania do zawodow to EKSTREMUM tego co mozna wycisnac z organizmu - chyle czola - dlatego przy niskich poziomach tluszczu moga dziac sie z Waszymy cialami EKSTREMALNE rzeczy - TRZYMAJCIE sie tego co sprawdzone - wielu kulturystow zawalilo wazne zawody bo akurat chcieli cos waznego nowego sprawdzic ! - NIE ROBCIE TEGO :D

podejrzewam jednak ze przy poziomach ~10-12% wiekszosc cwiczacych nie odczuje roznicy (juz z pewnoscia przy wyzszych nie :D)

a co do wchlaniania wapnia z nabialu to juz w ogole bylem w szoku - stad prosba o cos zrodlowego (u mnie w notesie stoi cos zupelnie przeciwnego :D)

co do wapnia a kazeiny, postaram się coś dodać po weekendzie, akurat będę po wykładzie z biochemii.
Co do wapnia w pełnym mleku to martwi mnie ze jest Ono tłuszczem zwierzęcym, a w tedy przecież wapń tak się nie wchłania.

"Już w 1920 roku zaobserwowano, że włączenie do diety mięsa powoduje wzmożone wydalanie wapnia w moczu (Sherman). Zaobserwowano również, że w krajach o wysokim spożyciu białka znacznie częściej zdarzają się złamania kości udowej niż w krajach o niskim spożyciu białka. Osteoporoza występuje tam też znacznie rzadziej (Hagsted 1986). Gdy białko zwierzęce zastąpi się białkiem roślinnym, na przykład z soi, poziom utraty wapnia przez mocz znacznie się obniża (Zemel 1988)."

To fakt z tym kombinowaniem, dla tego się ciesze ze mamy dziś tej klasy suplementy białkowe. Mogę być pewny co do jakości.

A jak wiadomo mleko 0% po wszystkich obróbkach traci swoje "pozytywne właściwości"

Z mięsem chodzi o zawartość w nim tłuszczy

tak tylko kilka pierwszych z brzegu


J Dairy Sci. 1987 Nov;70(11):2429-38.Click here to read Links
Calcium in dairy products.
Tunick MH.

Eastern Regional Research Center, United States Department of Agriculture, Philadelphia, PA 19118.

Increasing attention has been given to the nutritional role of calcium because many Americans do not consume their Recommended Dietary Allowance of this nutrient and because calcium deficiency may lead to the development of osteoporosis or other disorders. Calcium is absorbed in the intestines with the aid of a vitamin D metabolite and is used in the body for many essential functions. There are several ways to obtain calcium in the diet, but the best sources are milk and other dairy products because of their low cost and high bioavailability of this mineral. Some manufacturers have responded to the concern over lack of calcium in the diet by increasing its levels in milk. The amount of calcium in cheese and yogurt also can be elevated.



Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol. 19, No. 90002, 119S-136S (2000)
Published by the American College of Nutrition
The Bioavailability of Dietary Calcium
Léon Guéguen, MsScAgr and Alain Pointillart, DVM, PhD

Laboratoire de Nutrition et Sécurité Alimentaire, Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique, Jouy-en-Josas, FRANCE

Address reprint requests to: Alain Pointillart, DVM, PhD, Laboratoire de Nutrition et Sécurité Alimentaire, I.N.R.A., 78352 Jouy-en-Josas Cedex, FRANCE


It is well worth remembering that milk and milk products are by far the main source of calcium in our diet [1]. Cow’s milk contains an average of 1.20 g calcium per liter, 20% of which is bound to casein as an insoluble organic colloid and the remaining 80% in mineral form (45% in the tricalcium phosphate of the phospho-caseinate, which is also insoluble and colloidal, and 35% soluble, including 12% as ionized calcium) [189]. The organic or mineral calcium bound to casein is readily released during digestion, and there is general agreement that its potential bioavailability is high. Most solubility studies use milk calcium as a reference standard. The calcium in spinach, which is present as an insoluble oxalate, is taken as the extreme example of poor bioavailability. However, except for newborns fed on mother’s milk (calves drinking cow’s milk) which can absorb almost all the ingested calcium, the percent of milk calcium absorbed seldom exceeds 40% under normal dietary conditions.

The calcium in cheeses is readily available, despite the fact that cheese often contains large amounts of saturated long chainfatty acids and no lactose [22]. Tests on rats fed cheddar cheese labeled with 47Ca showed that the calcium was as well absorbed as was that from milk and that absorption was not influenced by the maturation time [106].

There is therefore no difference in the availability of calcium from milk and most of the best mineral or organic sources of calcium which are often used as medicines or dietary supplements and whose coefficient of absorption is about 30% to 40%. Only a few organic forms, like citrate-malate, can provide slightly better calcium availability [2].

Nevertheless, the calcium in milk differs in several interesting features from the calcium in other foodstuffs or supplements. These can be important when it is necessary to ensure high absorption of calcium under unfavorable physiological conditions [35]. Because it is bound to peptides and proteins, milk calcium is more likely to remain in solution when the pH is unfavorable, such as in achlorhydria. Milk calcium may be absorbed in the absence of vitamin D, under the influence of lactose in the distal small intestine via the paracellular route. Thus milk can provide calcium with "ensured absorbability" which is generally insensitive to external factors, except for inhibitors, such as oxalic acid. Dairy products do not contain anything likely to inhibit the intestinal absorption of calcium, like phytates, oxalates, uronic acids or the polyphenols of certain plant foods. The hypercalciuric effect of sulfates from milk proteins is offset by the hypocalciuric effect of phosphorus [156]. The endogenous sulfates produced by the breakdown of sulfur-containing amino acids produces a SO4/Ca ratio of 0.6, while this ratio is 2.6 in some high-sulfate, high-calcium mineral waters.

Lastly, it should be remembered that milk and dairy products are not only excellent sources of calcium, but also provide an almost complete diet whose consumption provides a "meal effect" [17]. This fosters the absorption of calcium and provides a simultaneous intake of phosphorus that is essential for bone deposition. These advantages cannot be provided by any other source of calcium, such as calcium supplements or Ca-rich waters.

As milk provides calcium with "protected absorbability," "prolonged absorption" and "extended bone deposition," milk is the most suitable dietary constituent that meets the high calcium intake required by postmenopausal women and the elderly. This is especially important because, according to some workers [176], and for still unknown reasons, the inhibition of bone remodeling that generally occurs in response to a high calcium intake is less marked when calcium is supplied by milk products. Further studies are now needed to identify a possible specific effect of milk products on bone, although this beneficial effect could be simply due to different rates of calcium absorption, with slower gastric emptying and a prolonged passive diffusion that ensures an extended supply of calcium to the bone.

a tutaj z brzegu na temat MITU
o tym ze duzo bialka to utrata wapnia (choc w sumie powienienem powiedziec pol mitu - gdy wapnia dostarczamy malo (cos mi sie kojarzy rzedyu 500 mg dziennie) a bialka duzo moze to nastepowac :D)


Am J Clin Nutr. 1983 Jun;37(6):924-9.Click here to read Links
Further studies of the effect of a high protein diet as meat on calcium metabolism.
Spencer H, Kramer L, DeBartolo M, Norris C, Osis D.

Previous studies in this Unit have shown that a high protein intake, given as meat, did not induce hypercalciuria, except for the initial and temporary increase in two subjects. In the present investigation the long-term effect of a high meat diet on calcium metabolism was studied for 78 to 132 days in four adult males and the short-term effect for 18 to 30 days in three subjects. Calcium and phosphorus balances and calcium absorption studies, using 47Ca as the tracer, were carried out. During the long-term high meat intake and during the short-term high meat studies, there was no significant change of the urinary or fecal calcium nor of the calcium balance. There was also no significant change of the intestinal absorption of calcium during the high meat intake. These long- and short-term studies have confirmed our previous results that a high protein intake, given as meat, does not lead to hypercalciuria and does not induce calcium loss.

marek c. pisal cos o utrudnionym wchlanianiu wapnia przez mleko . i skad mam teraz widedziec gdzie jest prawda ?
tu slychac ze mleko swietne zrodlo
p. marek mowi ze odwrotnie

znow prawda posrodku ?

Po prostu spróbować i zobaczyć czy są różne efekty w diecie z produktami mlecznymi i bez nich. Innej możliwości chyba nie ma.

dlatego zawsze prosze o zrodla na ktorych ktos bazuje
aby moc samemu je ocenic

wnioski zostawiam czytajacym :D